Bridging the Gaps: Reimagining Opioid Recovery
A podcast where we confront disparities, challenge outdated approaches, and reimagine a future where opioid addiction treatment is equitable, accessible, and effective for all communities."
Bridging the Gaps: Reimagining Opioid Recovery
The Courage to Heal: Faith, Recovery & Purpose
What happens when the roles we’ve learned to play no longer protect us—and we’re left with the truth of who we are? For Isaiah Brown, this moment of reckoning became the beginning of a profound healing journey.In this deeply honest conversation, Isaiah shares his path through childhood trauma, addiction, identity exploration, and spiritual renewal. He reflects on how early traumatic experiences shaped his coping strategies, and how facing those patterns head-on led to transformation.Isaiah opens up about:His story is a testament to the power of truth, resilience, and spiritual growth. Today, Isaiah shares his insights through his upcoming podcast Before It’s Too Late and his upcoming book My Therapist Made Me Write It, offering hope to others walking similar paths.
- Navigating childhood sexual abuse and its impact on mental health and substance use
- Finding strength in faith when support systems fell away
- The discomfort and breakthroughs of therapy
- How marriage, divorce, and transition became catalysts for self-discovery
- Reclaiming identity through gender transition
- Confronting internalized colorism, stereotypes, and healing racial self-perception
- Building new coping tools rooted in honesty, boundaries, and self-respect
Welcome to the Bridging the Gaps Reimagining Opioid Recovery the podcast where we confront disparities, challenge outdated approaches and reimagine a future where opioid addiction treatment is equitable, accessible and effective for all communities Across Minnesota and beyond. Opioid addiction continues to devastate lives, especially in marginalized and underserved communities, but here we're not just talking about the problem. We're bringing together experts, community leaders and lived experience voices to drive real solutions. Join us as we explore groundbreaking strategies, highlight innovative recovery models and amplify the voices of those fighting for equity in addiction care, because when we bridge the gaps, we build pathways to healing. This is Joanna Rosa, a duly licensed therapist, and I'm interested in chatting with community members about the intersections of well-being, recovery and living our daily lives. Join us for a conversation with members of Project Echo Fellowship, a group of community leaders working at the intersections of healthcare, substance use treatment and recovery. Enjoy our conversation.
Speaker 1:Today's episode features a powerful conversation with our guest, isaiah Brown, who opens up about his journey through trauma, addiction, mental health struggles and the road towards healing. It's an honest story about resilience, recovery and what it really means to rebuild your life. In this episode, we talk openly about drug use, addiction and mental health. These are important and sometimes heavy topics and some parts of the conversation may be triggering or emotionally difficult. Please take care while listening and know it's okay to pause or step away if needed. All right, so my first question is, first of all, introduce yourself to our listeners. Who are you?
Speaker 2:My name is Isaiah Brown and I am a storyteller, a poet, an influencer. I am content development, I do, I work on that and pretty much that's all that I am right now.
Speaker 1:So what motivates you, Isaiah?
Speaker 2:What motivates me? God and, honestly, myself. I am my best motivator. I'm my worst critic as well, but I am my best motivator. I'm my worst critic as well, but I am my motivation with myself.
Speaker 1:How do you motivate yourself? What gets you out of bed in the morning? What keeps you doing the work that you do?
Speaker 2:Better than my purpose, for God Gives me up honestly, going through different things in life, I used to lean a lot on people and things and when I figured that that was just temporary and I felt it it was just temporary I started leaning more towards God. He is the reason, more than myself, but it's him before me. So to get me out of bed, even in bad times, great times, however it may be, it's still God. So that's what motivates me. As far as that, and serving my purpose is a difference, but what's getting me up is because I know I have to do it because of him Serving that purpose totally different. I know that I can't rest. I'm tired. I can't rest until it's done. That's what motivates me. I got to get it done.
Speaker 1:Okay, so I got a couple questions. First of all, you said earlier that you were leaning on people too much or more than you were comfortable with, and then you eventually started changing that, so you were leaning more on God and your faith. Tell me more about that.
Speaker 2:So I came to a point that if you're injured, you need crutches. I started using people as crutches when I got injured in life and that was due to a narcissistic domestic relationship. So with that, I began to lean more on people and it took me years to realize that these people that I'm leaning on, I'm doing what they want, I'm saying what they want, I'm living what they want versus about me, and I completely lost myself leaning on other people. When I woke up, I realized that I got to go back to my roots. I got to go back to square one, because I can't even find me in this. So I went back to what I know and I went back to calling upon God. He starts showing me what I needed to do for myself in order to move forward.
Speaker 2:Leaning on people could be temporary, but I made it permanent. I got comfortable in leaning on people. I got lazy in life when I started noticing that. That's when I started leaning more on God, and then he was letting me know. Hey, once I got to a point, even with him I got comfortable. I'm leaning on him so much, he's doing so much for me, that he had to remind me that things without works are dead, so I had to start doing the work. When I started doing the work, I started seeing things totally different. I started waking up even more and I started seeing people I need to cut off but leaning, I started to abuse it because I got comfortable.
Speaker 1:What was happening for you as you were leaning on people and you were recognizing that the reliance on them was getting to be too much. What was happening for you, like what happened internally whether that's in your heart, your spirit, your thoughts that you started to go hey, something's off here.
Speaker 2:I was no longer comfortable with the decisions I was making. It just kept tearing me down. And I go to them and they're telling me hey, well, you know I would do this, I would do, but that's not what I would do. I wouldn't stand up for myself. So then I start living their life. I started realizing when I started seeing, I started getting frustrated just talking to them on the phone, when I started seeing you don't even live the life you're telling me to live. It begins to bother me in my spirit, to the point that I didn't want to associate with them anymore. I started realizing these past year's decisions I've been making because of these people that I was leaning on, and these were their decisions. Certain things stuck out. I made this decision because this person said this. They said that I began to understand that you're not supposed to share your gifts and everything with everyone.
Speaker 1:Certain things had to happen for me to be able to do that so we might have some listeners that say, hey, what's so wrong with that? Why can't you rely on other people to help you make decisions?
Speaker 2:there's nothing wrong with relying on other people temporarily, but if you're going to them for advice, you're supposed to take the advice, but it is basically like eating, so basically you're supposed to chew up the meat and spit out the bone whatever resonates with you. If it feels like it is you, then that's the decision to make. But if you're making decisions for them, that has nothing to do with your life and you're going to end up in the same position or even worse, or the same circumstances, because these people know that's like my. I'll give you an example of this now. I an ex-drug abuser years past. But with that I want to say this here if in the particular sort of situations that I'm in today, if I were to go to a friend and say, hey, I really want to try my DOC, my drug of choice, because I've had death in my life, I've had loss of financial situations, I've had so much hit me at one time I really want to try my DOC, I may have a friend say, go ahead and hit that one time, it's not going to hurt, I'll deal with you while you hit it one time.
Speaker 2:Well, first of all, that's their decision, that's not mine. I'm coming to you telling you how I feel. But if I made my true decision, yeah, that's how I feel, but I'm not going to do it because I know me and I know the spiral that that's going to do. It only takes one time for me. But if I got someone in my corner when I'm coming to the wrong people saying, hey, I just want to tie it one time, and that same person is supposed to be a friend, I'm leaning on the wrong people and leaning too hard, too long. But with that, if I make a decision based upon what they said, I can blame them. But it's not their fault, that's mine. Honestly, sometimes that first decision in your mind is the right decision. When you second guess it a lot of times you start breaking things up. If that's clear, I hope I hope so. If not, I apologize.
Speaker 1:No, that makes sense. So if we can talk a little bit about how you coped with these decisions you were making, that didn't necessarily align with what you wanted to see in life, how did you cope? What did life look like at that time?
Speaker 2:In which time we were talking about specific times, and I can definitely hit you with that. There's certain things that I went through in life that were like boulders that hit, and then there's certain things that hit like pebbles. It took me maybe months to get through putting boulders. It took me years. So if you're saying how did I cope, If you're saying coping with boulders, me coping with boulders, it took me years to do that, what I did was use negative gestures. I can say I turned to drugs. I turned to prostitution. I turned to not just using drugs, I was also selling drugs, Prostitution. I turned to theft, getting involved with the wrong people. It was just so many things I did that I was trying to find a way. Everything was temporary. It was just so many things I did that I was trying to find a way. Everything was temporary.
Speaker 2:When I began to cope, after I learned how to cope with those things and this is still in the boulder mode now but after I learned how to cope with those things then I had to see for myself that it was wrong. Nobody told me about me. So when I got out of that and I came to it, I was like what can I do different. I'm not going to lie to you. It's very strange and I didn't even know it at the time, but I developed OCD and that took a lot of time away from trying to do things. I didn't even know I developed it.
Speaker 2:I knew nothing about it, but I knew I needed to wash my hands multiple times a day. I needed to put things in a certain order, to wash my hands multiple times a day. I needed to put things in a certain order If I wanted to do something like even if I was to schedule something, hey, if this wasn't like it was supposed to do. B, I'm not, I can't make it. So anyway, I began to cope in positive ways. I'm not going to say OCD is all positive, but for me it kept me away from those negatives. Positives I did I started getting into the world and going to church. I started getting into movies and movies became my number one hobby because I'd be so stuck into a movie that I would forget about the desires I was craving. So it depends on what I was going through and how I coped. But the more I learned about myself, the more I hated the stuff that I was using negatively towards myself.
Speaker 1:Can I ask what led to the drug use?
Speaker 2:So about the age of 17,. I did not understand what was going on with my life, but I knew something I had constant reminders of being sexually abused by family friends, family members, people down the street, people in the neighborhood. I was sexually abused and I was also sexually abused. Those things just started popping in my head and I began to hurt. I didn't know how to deal with it. I'm 17, I'm trying to deal with this stuff, but I couldn't talk to anyone. I didn't trust anyone. The closest person I had was a friend of mine, but we didn't even know about the things I was doing. I came to her. We used to go to church together and we had a member of her church pray with me. But things that just went through my head. Honestly, I didn't know how to deal with it. I didn't know where to go, so I tried to commit suicide. I tried to kill my aunt in her sleep. I started hearing voices, these things that really shook my body. I started talking to myself. I started isolating myself. I was consciously aware, but I don't know what it was. I'll never forget it.
Speaker 2:In high school I had a friend that kept asking you're weird now, what's going on? I was just like man, leave me the fuck alone. I'm quitting school. Man, I'm done with this. A teacher leaves the classroom. I didn't pay her attention. She comes back about 30 minutes later and my nickname was Munchie and I'm like what's up? She gives me a hug and I hug her back like hey, go into the office. I walk with her to the office not thinking about anything. We go to the office and they asked me if I needed to talk about anything. They would help me. My school didn't care about money. They said we're going to find you a therapist. That's not in the school. They said we'll bring a man until you're comfortable. And I was like, okay, whatever, you know, I'm not honestly growing up as far as Black culture. I grew up thinking we don't talk to people, we don't have their possessed crazy people stuff. So I really didn't take it serious or anything. But anyway, they brought two men in and a woman and I didn't want the first one, which is a man. I didn't want the second one, which is another man, to put to another man, and so they brought a woman in that had nothing to do with her gender. He was the only one that showed that he cared. So while I was telling her my story and why I didn't choose the other two therapists, I said I still don't know if I'm going to choose you, and I'm pretty sure he put that in her notes.
Speaker 2:I started telling her what was going on. She got me to do it some type of way. I don't know, but when I did I saw her crying and I was thinking to myself this lady has plenty of clients who's been through the same shit, so she's not crying. But why is she crying? And I chose her over the others because I can see that she cared and it wasn't fake or anything. So with that I kept her from 17 to 22 until I moved from Washington State to Tennessee.
Speaker 2:I kept her that long, growing up not a narcissist but with narcissistic characteristics. I can tell you this I wasn't serious about therapy. I've seen that it was cool to open up a little bit, but I also seen opportunity to pull on her emotional things and to manipulate her because I knew she cared. Didn't really trust her either, but it still helped me to vent a little bit Because it was an issue. I knew this was a source for help and that I could always go back to it when I was ready. Some people play with search, you know like, hey, I need to know what I need him, but any other time I really, really don't need him, yeah. So I did that with that and learned that at an early age.
Speaker 1:So at that age, though, you recognize that I'm going to give you a little, but not a whole lot, and you're recognizing that there is emotion in the room. Were you aware? That you could manipulate it.
Speaker 2:Yes, because I learned that at an early age how to do it, and I did it with older people all the time, because that's who I come to and older people treated me like I was older, so I was very aware of what I was doing. It was like a feeling that made me feel excellent. I was like I got it. I already know there's another one, and that was at that age and in that mind state.
Speaker 1:I was going to ask you what was the payoff for manipulating, but you just answered that there was power to that.
Speaker 2:And I used it in so many other ways that hurt people. Yeah, it was like as a child I learned it, then I began to master it, and then I took it into adulthood until it destroyed me.
Speaker 1:So what happened next? You said, you kept her until you were 22. You then moved.
Speaker 2:Yes, I moved to Tennessee and it was a new start. Nobody knew me. I had no family here, no friends here. I had to create a whole new life no family here, no friends here. I can create a whole new life. I was able to come out in Tennessee. I had no one here to judge me. I didn't give a damn about what anybody thought. When I moved to Tennessee I was still in a relationship with a man. It was off and on for six years, but I let that go in 2003. And in 2004, I began dating a girl in college and there were just issues with that. But going back and forth with identity issues, trying to deal with myself and other people With that, I still didn't want therapy. I started dating someone in 2005, and they pointed out hey, you need some therapy, you got some issues.
Speaker 2:They were the ones that said it. Yes, I was like, man, I don't need that, y'all need that, I don't need that, y'all need that, I don't do that. That shit's for white people. And that's how I felt. I was very ignorant at the time. With that, I didn't do it, but what I did do in 2009, I had an issue, not just in 2009, but throughout life, with fear of success and fear of failure. So anytime my life was progressing and I was doing what I was supposed to do and I'm elevating in life, I would get scared and I would do something to self-sabotage. I still didn't seek help from therapy until I had just gotten married and when I got married, I seen that I was going to mess it up. I'm getting ready, I'm moving on in life, I'm growing, I seek help and I got a therapist.
Speaker 2:When I got the therapist, I had diagnosis after diagnosis. I was like I don't even trust you guys. To the point I went to it was like a mental, not a hospital or nothing like that, but we're having a lot of therapists. And so I went there and I don't really want to call it no doctor's office, because it's not bad, but anyway I went there and they would put me with different therapists. All the time, I felt as though you guys are just trying to fulfill a need for funding or something, because you're putting me with different people and different people are giving me different diagnoses. They don't even know me. So every time I'm meeting with someone new, you guys don't even put all these notes together to make what it truly is. So I started playing them too. When I started playing them, I saw that I wasn't really getting the help that I needed, so I did not want to do it anymore, so I quit therapy.
Speaker 2:With that, too, it went from 2016, when I got therapy for the wrong reason. I got a divorce and he had said hey, you get some therapy, we can work this out. I'm like all right, cool. So I did it in 2016 after my divorce for her, and while I'm doing the work, I'm realizing even though I'm still trying to get back with her that this is not working. My therapist, great guy and I'm realizing while he's making me do homework, it's not working because I'm doing it for us. Forget it, let me do it for me. When I start putting in the work, doing it for me. Oh my God, my life began to change drastically. It was drastically, but anyway.
Speaker 2:He was the only therapist of all that got me to journal. So many other therapists tried to get me to journal. You can burn it, you can give it to me. No, I don't trust you. No, I'm not burning it because it might not burn all the way. I wanted so desperately to fix me. I didn't want to hurt anyone else like I hurt her. I said what's wrong with me? I need to figure it out. I need to figure it out from the ground up. Why do I behave this way? He's the only person that got me to be able to journal and when I began to write it out, I began to figure it out and then I can bring it back to him and since then I have been serious about therapy.
Speaker 1:So I want to back up. You got married. How were you identifying at that point? Because you said you had been with men, you'd been with women.
Speaker 2:So as a child I always identified to other people as straight. But then when I came to Tennessee, I felt like I could be me and I was like, hey, I'm a lesbian. And then my ex was telling me I need therapy and things like that. I began to think about it and I was like, wait a minute. Truly, I've never felt like I was a woman. So I'm telling them that and I'm telling them how it feels. And then they didn't get it. I could never find anyone, not a friend, not somebody in the street, nobody. I worked with no one who had any feelings that were the same. I kept it to myself.
Speaker 2:But I always feared throughout my marriage that I was that way. But I always feared throughout my marriage that I was that way, that I never moved on or anything. I couldn't even be comfortable enough to live that life. But after my divorce and I began to learn about myself, I didn't care who had an issue with it. I didn't care about anything like that. I wanted to just finally be me. And so with that, I always knew, early as the age of maybe seven, that I even wrote about it always was. I felt that way, but I knew my family wasn't going for it. Because I heard what they used to say about other gay people, I was like ain't no way in hell I'll ever tell them no, no, okay, yes so then the question becomes up until that point you said you'd gotten married and you'd identified as a lesbian.
Speaker 1:How were you born?
Speaker 2:I was biologically born. Okay, I transitioned in 2019. I know some people say that's a dead life, we don't talk about it, but for me, I wouldn't be where I am today if it wasn't for her. I'd identify as male, but I wouldn't have gotten to where I was without her, so I can never deny her With that. I have many stories to share about her and also to include about who I am today as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So it sounds like your marriage, even though it ended in divorce, was a really important time for you in terms of who you were, who you are, your identity, figuring out yourself, and it sounds like it also became a springboard into getting a therapist that you really did click with yes, god knew what he was doing.
Speaker 2:he always know what he's doing. I could not see myself paired with anyone else at that time that would have showed me me. Other people would have let me be and never pushed me to become who I am or to become better than I was. So, yes, it was that, but it had to come to a point that would. It's like people's rock bottom. She could say that all day, but it wasn't until she had enough of that that it took me to do something.
Speaker 2:I tried every scheme to get her back. She had already seen all that in almost 11 years, so I had to do something different. I did it in the beginning for her. Then I was like, hey, let me do it for her. No, neither ways work. But when I did it for me, yes, and I didn't even give a damn about us anymore. I just started focusing on me, because I was like dude, you are a fucked up individual. You have a lot of trauma that you should have worked on before you get into a relationship. But I did not want to face it and I had no reason to face it. I didn't have to. Why? And I had no reason to face it. I didn't have to why did you?
Speaker 2:No one will make me. I didn't have to face that. It's no different from anyone else in life that have issues, and if no one ever makes them face it, then they're not going to face it. So therefore, it's not an issue for them. It may be an issue for you, but it's not for them. So I was the same way. It was not an issue for other people and I didn't give a damn about other people, but I needed to see that that's not okay. You can't be socially working with anyone in any type of way and be successful that way.
Speaker 1:So 2016, right to divorce, you started working with your therapist. First you did it for her, Then you did it for the relationship. What shifted in you recognizing that?
Speaker 2:you needed to do therapy for yourself. What shifted was I still couldn't get her back, and so then it went from. What is wrong with me? How is it that I hurt somebody this much, that every time she hurts I'm hurting too? What did I do so bad and why did I do it? What was my reason behind it? I had to dig. I'm asking family members different things and I'm asking friends different things, and I'm just trying to put puzzles together.
Speaker 2:Honestly, that wasn't working. So I started leaning more spiritually into God. When I started reading his word, being more into it, being more in tune to him, turning music off, turning all the sounds and phone calls and things off, I could hear more clearly. He began to show me things that I didn't like and I didn't like me. That's something that I used to be out mentoring and ministering to other people, letting them know you know, hey, love yourself and all these type of things is, you know, just motivating them to be better. And I felt more of a hypocrite than he showed me me, because I wasn't doing the same things that I'm telling these people to do. And then, when I had to do it, I realized how hard it was. I'm putting these people like a coach, and no, no, I'm more like a champ, because I'm sitting here going to tell these people to do this and tell them hey, you can do it, man, you can do it. You're making excuses, all this other stuff, but now, when I'm in that same position, I want to say the same things they're saying. I hear my voice saying don't make excuses. But at the same time I'm hurting and it's hard. I feel like I cannot do it. So now I'm in their shoes, and so now I had to put myself both in their shoes and go back to where I was to be able to pull myself out, because I had isolated myself so I don't have anybody else to call but God and myself. So in this time, that's what I'm doing and that's how he was able to pull me up out of there, to be able to come up and think like I was thinking, but at the same time, understand where I'm at. So I'm able to stand up and put my own hand down there to tell me to, hey, get up. And that's what I did and that's how I keep moving. It gets harder Throughout life.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, did your ex-wife ever share her side of things with you. What was her experience like in the marriage she did? And I have to be honest with you, know, when she said that I was not listening, I was hearing her but I wasn't listening to her. I was hearing her but I wasn't listening to her. I was hearing her and when I say hearing, yeah, I heard the sounds coming out of her mouth, but I wasn't listening to the words she was saying. While she was still subconsciously giving me an opportunity. I was still in the old way. I had not fully healed, but I was trying to get what I felt I deserved without completely healing. That was not going to work. I could not have my cake and eat it tonight, so I wasn't ready to hear those things because I was still working on me Throughout time.
Speaker 2:I can call her today, right now, and she's. I mean, we have daddy on the spot. You know he will listen to me. If I need help with anything, she's right there. But you know we have never had that conversation because, as I told a friend recently, I'm still not ready for that. I need to be able to hear her just as well as I am listening to her. I need to be able to hear her just as well as I am listening to her. I need to be able to take everything in and we can discuss it that way. But it's unfair to her for me to discuss that and I'm still not at the level to discuss that with her. If I'm at four and she's at 12, I need to meet her at 12. But if I'm still at four, there's no need to discuss that because I can't handle what she has to say and then I will blame her, and it has nothing about blame.
Speaker 1:It's even tied up to how she feels. Yeah, I love how you said that In recovery there's a process of making amends. Are we truly receiving? Are we truly making amends for the reasons that we're supposed to amend? Everybody's amends are a little different, so I don't want to generalize and say it's always about one thing.
Speaker 1:Yet the consistent theme about making amends is that we have hurt people in our active use, in the process of forgiveness, not only forgiving ourselves for what we did, we're also asking for forgiveness for the hurt that we caused, absolutely. I want to go back because you had talked about the idea of pebbles versus boulders, and I love that, because some things are small, they are pebbles. You know, just like all of our listeners know, a rock gets stuck in your shoe. That is an annoyance and irritation. Yet that boulder is something much bigger. It has more of an implication or conflict, confusion or animosity. How are you managing some of those pebbles in your life? Because the boulders are a little bit different. Right, they take more fortitude, they take more honesty, they take more trust.
Speaker 2:They do. And with time. Honestly, with time there comes wisdom. If you allow it, I have people that will call me and discuss things that used to be my boulders but are now my pebbles. So when I talk with them, I hear the anxiety, I hear the stress, I hear what they're going through, but at the same time I'm able to let them know hey, just calm down, you know, you can try this. How about try that? Things that they can try, but still give them the option that this is your choice. But with that too, I handle it differently. I passed it. It's like a test that you pass. You had to have a 75 to pass. I at least got a 75 on that test. So I've moved past the pebbles and onto the boulders.
Speaker 2:How do I handle the boulders? I'm not going to lie to you. I do lean on certain people no longer the people that I used to lean on. I kind of put people in my circle. Doc that's my acronym for drug appointment Some of my friends.
Speaker 2:I use them as my drugs of choice. If I need an upper, I call certain friends. If I need a downer, I call certain friends. I know that I cannot call a friend when I need a downer, I call certain friends. I know that I cannot call a friend. When I need a downer, I don't call an upper. When I need an upper, I don't call a downer because that's going to take me exactly where I don't want to go.
Speaker 2:I had to be able to learn me. In order to do that, I had to spend time with me to learn the difference of how to get through the pebbles versus the boulders. I no longer use those same coping skills I used before. I have new coping skills that I do use in order to change my mind, because it starts in the mind. So I'll exercise, I'll walk, I'll pray, I'll write, I'll do different things that will make me feel good enough to calm down. It's like my own anxiety pill. It took time to learn that, though that's a skill I had to work. But what I do and then I get calm enough, I'll cool down from that particular situation Not saying it's not going to flare back up in 30 minutes, but I may have to do that up again.
Speaker 2:This is now my new drug, but it's a positive drug and it's all natural. If I need that next bump, I need that next high. Let me go ahead and hit this again. So I need to go ahead and listen to some more music. Let me dance some more. My show ain't going back to the start. That's how I handle it as of today, not saying I don't struggle because I can't stop every time I go somewhere or doing something or working. So I had the mental thing and it starts there in the mind. It's kind of like I never did finish any type of rehab center. I never did the whole 30 days, six days, none of that. I do know that one of the steps is, or one of the things they do tell you is one day at a time. So not for me with drugs, but with boulders it takes time. They take years to get through.
Speaker 1:One day at a time. It takes years to get through One day at a time. Speaking of entering into recovery, can you share about what was the catalyst? What got you to look at your life and say I can no longer use or this is no longer serving me?
Speaker 2:How did you enter into recovery? Oh no, no See, with recovery with me. I'm not going to lie to you. My time in my family I was the biggest liar, the biggest manipulator. I'm going to get you. If you want a pyramid scheme, baby, that's me. I got you. Other people wanted me to quit, but I didn't want to quit. No, no, no. But I need to know how I'm going to be able to get my next stash. I can do for just a while. So it was other people who wanted me to do it, and so they would try to get me to sign up for this. Sign up for that.
Speaker 2:I did all that fake defunct and I would never follow through when it came to a point of me seeing for myself when my enablers quit on me, man, they quit the job. When my enablers quit the job, I had no other choice but to do what was right, because now I got my own place. I got to be able to maintain this, otherwise I'm going to be homeless and no matter who I'm hitting up, my enablers quit. I can't get them to come back to work. They said no. They said they quit. I said no, you was laid off. They said no, we quit. I said, all right then. So there was nothing I could do.
Speaker 2:From there I went on to leaning on God. Honestly, I didn't have money to get on the bus, to call for a cab or pay somebody for gas, and this was when gas was like 89 cents a gallon. I didn't have a dime because I didn't spend it all on this. I didn't have anything, and when I had nothing else, I was it. So I just began to walk the church and the church doors wasn't even open. The church wasn't even there. I'm still going. I walked there in the snow, I walked there in the rain, didn't care, I did whatever I did, and I kept reading the word, not really even understanding it, but my life still began to change.
Speaker 2:And with that I just kept that same pace and I was like well, my mama always told me if something's worked, don't change it. So I said, well, this is working, so I'm not changing it. Now I'm able to actually pay my bills. I'm not saying every time I got money in my pocket I didn't want to spend it on it. Yeah, I did. My hands were burning, my pockets were burning. I, my hands were burning, my pockets were burning, I was wanting to get it, but I didn't do it and it took cutting people out.
Speaker 2:So from there, it wasn't anybody that did that, that was me. Because I was like I have nowhere else to go, I had no one else. But that's when my enablers quit on me. So that's when I started. I had to lean on nobody else but God and me. And so from there that's when I started doing it on my own. No, I did not need rehab. Well, I'm not going to say I didn't need it, I didn't use it, I didn't. And then I just kept on with that. I got legal jobs and from there I just started building no-transcript. But I had another mother, but only one, biological. That's my baby. Another mother was like hey, you're going to go to school. And I went to Austin Peay State University.
Speaker 2:Things began to change for me in mindset. I didn't move the same way I moved before. Besides that, I was too scared. I'm in a new state. These folks don't know me, nor do they care about me. So I had to move differently. It was from there. But it wasn't because of rehab. I'm not saying rehab won't work, because it's just not for me. I went, I was there three days and I figured the system out in three days to the point that I knew when the counselors come. I snuck because I knew their break times and stuff and I seen when they was going to do their rounds. I got on the phone and had a ride come get me on the third day. It didn't work for me. Everyone there was older than me and I was a kid. I didn't even feel comfortable there, man. But yeah, for me it was God. You know, it didn't take 12 steps, it took one and that was just called in the name of Jesus. That was for me, but I know so many people that we had help. Yeah, thank you. I'm sorry.
Speaker 1:What's the connection between your recovery journey and transitioning from female to male?
Speaker 2:I'm not going to say that I abused drugs because of my sexuality, but I will say because of the trauma that I went through with the sexual abuse. I'm not going to say that's why I'm trans either, but I didn't know how to cope with that as a child being sexually molested. I didn't know how to cope with that as a child being sexually molested. I didn't know how to deal with that as a child. When I was trying to cope with it, I didn't know what else to do and I didn't have anyone to talk to, because in my family, what happens in this house stays in this house and we don't talk. So all we have to do is hold it in. A lot of my family members are strong, they can hold their stuff in and we have another saying, hey, I'm going to take it to the grave. That's fine, that's what you guys were able to do.
Speaker 2:But as my generation was coming up and I'm starting to see different ways of life from other families and other people my family I'm starting to see that this is not okay and I can't handle this. So as it is building up and it's coming through, I didn't know what to do with it. So when I started seeing other people use drugs and alcohol. Man, I'll try. I was told not to do it, but okay, let me try it. And these older people that I'm around, they allowed me to do it. That's what you do. The first drug I ever tried was cocaine.
Speaker 1:But the first drug I ever dealt with was marijuana.
Speaker 2:After cocaine I would do cocaine and then I would smoke weed and then from weed I would smoke crack and then from crack I would have meth. It was different drugs that I would have with different friends With narcissistic characteristics. I had different groups of people that I hung around them hearing my stories. They wouldn't know who that was. Every group had a different person. They wouldn't believe that was the life I was living. When I'm not around you guys, I'm with other groups of people doing other things.
Speaker 2:My coping skills and recovery and becoming a trans took a lot to deal with, to even be open about being trans. I couldn't be open about being trans in my marriage. It's a long journey and doesn't everybody are making my own decisions and saying, hey, it's okay to be me. I'm still not accepted at home because they have this thing where they're like, hey, we are always going to be this person for me and I don't think it's fair. But I'm accepted outside a whole lot more than I am with family.
Speaker 2:But I had to get to a certain point to accept that. It took time being alone, learning me, loving me, accepting me. It started with me. That's how it grows. I can't really expect other people to accept me and I don't accept me. I can't expect other people to respect me and I don't respect me. So I had to make different moves in my life, but it took that work. It wasn't no one else that did that, because I played the game with them and I wasn't going to get help. It took me hitting rock bottom to realize, hey, I ain't got nowhere else to go and nobody else is going to help me.
Speaker 1:So that was it.
Speaker 2:I'm glad you have your chosen family to support you. Oh, yes, I am very grateful for all of them, very grateful. I love my biological family as well. It's just they don't even know who. I am very grateful for all of them, very grateful. I love my biological family as well. It's just they don't see me as who I am today.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I can sit here and go back and forth with it all day long the same person that they used to see. Well, are you going to always see me as a crackhead too? Because I was there too, but I'm no longer that. I haven't did that in over 20 years, so why would you still call me that? I can go back and forth with them, but it's hurtful, but I love them and I treat them different and they treat me different. That's what that is and that's still something that I am healing from. I may go to the grave healing from that, but, being the drug abuse, I have already healed from that and I've already moved on from that With that. You know I've written about it. It's in my upcoming book, but I have so many other issues that I dealt with growing up that led to discovering me too.
Speaker 2:I had issues, and I don't even know if we have time for that, but I had issues as far as race with Black people. I'm Black as hell, I'm light-skinned, but I'm black as hell in spirit. I had self-hate. I had so much self-hate, man, I couldn't stand a dark-skinned person, that thing. And today I wish a person would talk about a dark-skinned person. Oh my God, beautiful Lord Jesus, if he would have gave me that skin, I wouldn't know how to act. But I had issues with that too.
Speaker 2:Growing up I had to learn through therapy. That was due to trauma, because the people that used to harm me was dark school, and so I even started out. I started dating in elementary and I had a thing If it wasn't light or white, it ain't right, I ain't with that shit. No, get your dark ass on. No, you're on black, black to black, no, but that. And I carried that until my adulthood. And again that's when I was exposed by my ex and she told me about myself Tell me, you got cell paint. No, I don't. Yeah, I did had a lot of cell paint, but again that had a lot of self-hate. But again that played a part in my identity and knowing who I am today.
Speaker 1:Do you feel comfortable saying a little more about that colorism? It's not exclusive to your experience of trauma. It is indicative of the very real racial trauma that Black and brown people experience every day. We've inherited this metric system for deciding what's right and what's wrong in terms of race and skin color. What is it? Light is right.
Speaker 2:If it wasn't light or white, it wasn't right yeah.
Speaker 1:And so we've learned throughout all these messages that we receive. Growing up, I know I received those messages as well the darker your skin, the less worth you had. Family members were treated differently at school. People were judged according to the tone of your skin. They were judged on texture of your hair. You had all these little metrics. It feels really small, but it's so big in our experiences.
Speaker 2:Yeah, preach, I know I'm still learning today and I will have to tell you my experience as far as being up north oh my goodness, so different. Honestly, I'm not going to lie. I was fast and I I don't know and I can't even pinpoint it and say I was fast because of molestation, I don't know, but I call myself trying to date people in elementary, from kindergarten all the way to adulthood. So with that I still had my thing. If it wasn't white or white, it wasn't right. If it's black, get it back. I ain't got time for that. So with that it was like I was aware of what I was doing but I didn't know what to call it and I didn't know how to talk about it with people. So I still knew what I was doing. So if there was guys in the classroom that I was going to happen. But with that I didn't understand it. Past for biracial or anything like that.
Speaker 2:But when I say that it works, I always chose to be lighter, always chose to be white. You know, with certain situations with dating, work and different stuff that was going on, I would always choose white or light man. My dad ain't white man. I would do different things and different people would treat me different because of that. But I also seen how they treat other people that was darker. I seen this in elementary and I'm like they don't want to play with them, they don't play with me.
Speaker 2:But then it went to middle school and things are different now. So when people now believe that, yeah, you do get treated different, but now the jocks or the pretty boys or the thugs or whatever, now they want you more because you're more of an exotic color, this is at my time in the 90s, being dark skinned. I'm not saying that people was really out of it because I was hanging with guys and girls and I'm listening to the guys. The guys don't really want these dark skinned girls. They want the more exotic with the pretty hair, pretty eyes, pretty skin. They want all that. Okay, cool, that's what I'm pretending to be. So then, as it goes to high school, it's no different. It's just now we're older and now we have more preference than just the skin world. There's different things as I became an adult and after high school, I would still have that preference as I spoke to people.
Speaker 2:Now that mature More, guys would tell me their preferences too, but women would look at me like I'm crazy and it took my ex to tell me. She said you got a problem, you got too much self-hate. I said I don't have self-hate. It took me to sit there and she made me so mad. It pierced my soul that it constantly rang in my ears. I had to think about it and I was like, okay, well, why don't I like dark skin? You know, I know that you have preference and stuff, but what is my reason for not doing that? And the thing was she's more of a brown skin or I was like I love the hell out of her. It didn't matter.
Speaker 2:Then I had to get to the root of it and that was when I did the work. I found that all my abusers that stuck in my head and I constantly had nightmares about they were all starched up. I just didn't like people because of them. I didn't know that growing up and carrying all that into college, didn't know that until then, and when I realized it it hurt like hell. Any true friend of mine can tell you I will binge watch every African-American movie I can watch dealing with slavery. I love my people, man, it don't matter what color they could be, three strange times cold, and I love it to death. Death.
Speaker 2:It was so bad also that I'm gonna say something that I hate to admit my mother's brown skin. So from elementary on, throughout into college, I was like no, this is no, my mama can't be no. So I would a lot of people tell people that my mom was different. She was biracial, she was Puerto Rican. She was Puerto Rican, she was Spanish, whatever. I would say different things because I didn't want nothing to do with thirsty people.
Speaker 2:And then when I truly learned about loving my mother into college, I seen things differently. I said that's my mom. I don't give a damn what color she is. That lady carried me through so many things. There's no way in hell I'm not going to sit here and celebrate her. My mother is brown skin and I love her, but at the time I'm not going to sit here and celebrate her. My mother is brown-skinned and I love her, but at the time I did not because of that. So I would try to run and hide.
Speaker 2:And so she mentioned the movie to me that I've watched before but never really paid attention to. I went back and paid attention to it and she said that's going to be you. It is Imitation of Life. I said, oh my God, no, no, ain't no way in hell. But it was so deep that I even had issues with my mother because she was dark-skinned and about to be filled to me. It was dark, I'm still lightest. So with that it was deep and I didn't even know I had that problem and it was exposed to me. I don't know why it pierced my soul, but it did, and that's when I began to see things differently. I had to wake up and that was never okay, man.
Speaker 1:no, never so, as we look forward, there was a time of transition where you were working with your therapist, right. How did you get to here today? And you mentioned a book earlier, so I want to talk about that too. What were some of those steps that led you to who you are today?
Speaker 2:honestly, I, I had to lose to win. So I got to a point in life where I began to change, and this is after my divorce. I began to see things differently with myself. So when I began to date, I not realizing man, I'm picking myself, and so, as I'm picking myself, these people are picking me apart. I lost everything. I ever worked for everything. I earned everything I wanted. I lost everything.
Speaker 2:I had no way. But, uh, I was down on my face and I had to turn around for somebody to even put their hand out, to reach out to get help. Man, and I had, basically, was this my own medicine. And that's when I realized, man, I can't take what I did. So it broke me to the point of that. I can only imagine what I did to so many other men and women in the world and I don't know that bad, but anyway I got to that point. And when I did, when I lost everything women in the world I'm not that bad, but anyway I got to that point. And when I did, when I lost everything I went to college and I have a bachelor's, I have a master's I got to a point where I couldn't even utilize nothing, nothing. It meant nothing. It it it, nothing meant anything. I couldn't do anything. I became homeless, renting cars to live in and living in hotels. I lost it all.
Speaker 2:My actions were very serious and I understand that. You know, vengeance is mine. Fear the Lord. And it had nothing to do with really what people were doing. You know, I understand I asked him to give this and all that, but that don't mean you don't get consequences for your actions, and I've done a lot of people dirty. I could cry all day about it. That ain't going to do nothing, but I'll just take it, not trying to hurt myself, but I also have to take my kind of work.
Speaker 2:So, coming up from that, when God was done with me, I was able to stand up and tell my testimony and my story, and where I started my podcast, I used to be a teacher. I was a principal as well. Telling my story helped me so much that God was letting me know to share with the world. For me it's like I had to become vulnerable and so many people out there like lions ready to eat that stuff, and so it took me close to 10 years to be able to put this book out because I had so much work of doing it. It's like telling my story and telling me how I got through every situation with God.
Speaker 2:But I will say this my book is not written in chronological order. It is written in the order that I healed from and what I'm still healing from. Getting to the point where I am is I had to go through it to get to it. A lot of times I even tried to go around and it don't work. I had to deal with the problems to get to where I'm at, and I'm still not where I want to be. But I know God can love me. So as he lead, I follow him, and even then I still make mistakes, but he's still with me and I'm still following him. So that's where I'm at as of today, being a podcast host. I write poetry, storyteller, author, and that's what I do.
Speaker 1:It's beautiful and I know that you said being vulnerable. Some people eat that up. Your vulnerability touches lives For the person who eats it up like a lion in a den. There are those of us who are moved by your vulnerability and are really hearing the wisdom in all of your experiences.
Speaker 2:For you, then for the first time, if you hear like my experience with drugs, that is serious as it is. For the first time if you hear like my experience with drugs. That is, my promo chapter is titled I don't run to my ex. My book is titled my Therapist Made Me Write it. I love that.
Speaker 1:And you said as serious as it is. Sometimes we gotta get unserious, but go ahead. I love it.
Speaker 2:For the very first time. I was so secretive as a child. I was the kid that you wouldn't mind having around. But you're talking, grown folk talk and I have nothing else to do but listen. I'm around so many adults growing up it comes to a point now that that sponge is time to release.
Speaker 2:So as I'm writing, even my promo chapter coming out with Letter to my Ex and it is drug-affiliated, drug-related. So with that you can't tell me exactly what you think the family would feel, because they're going to hear about me being very detailed in my drug use. I give my story, I give my testimony. I cared so many years about them not wanting to hear it. But I'm at the point now it's time and when God say move, I gotta move. Just tell me what you think that as a family member that you would hear for the very first time, hearing that your family, I remember, struggled the way they did and did the things they did for drugs yeah, I think I can speak from my own experience seeing my loved ones go through addiction, into recovery or stay in addiction or have untreated mental health issues.
Speaker 1:I know for me it was sad to hear, it was excruciating to hear family members having this extreme trauma response, having intrusive memories, having experiences out in the world that were so dangerous in their act of use, and feeling at a loss, feeling powerless Because, even though we love each other and we're family, at the end of the day this person is having this entirely unique experience unto themselves and, as much as we love and care for them, there isn't anything we can do. You had to hit rock bottom in order to start taking that climb back up. It's a sobering experience to see people struggling, hurting and not be able to do anything for them. I know you said your family's experiences. They accept you that you'll always be that previous person to them, the ability to have some embrace with what your experiences are, so they can gain a little more understanding of who you are today.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yes, I hope so as well. The more they get to know me as the person I am today, they'll love me even more, but we don't know each other that well. I left home at 18 and never really returned yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So there's this version of you that they remember and have fixed in their mind right, and so they kind of have to true up who you were and who you are, and sometimes that's difficult for people because they have to reckon with changing what they know, and sometimes that's a scary experience for people.
Speaker 2:So I'd rather stick to what I know rather than learn something new you got it and I understand that, but at the same time we got to move forward.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's life. We change. We don't stay who we are when we were 17. We're meant to evolve over our lifetime. Some people have more ease with that than others, and some kick and scream and they want things the same. And then that's where my job comes in. That's a therapist right Always have a job, I know that's right.
Speaker 2:Yes, you will. Yes, that is so true. With that, one thing I can say about therapy that today, today, I will say that I have more people, friends and associates that contact me more than anything, that make more excuses than a man going to jail about going to therapy or participating in therapy, but then they want to vent to me as though I am a therapist and I know that would have happened. I advocate for therapy so much, but what could you say that would assist me in pushing people towards getting help of a therapist, because I'm not that and they drain my energy? I think the first thing I would ask is to understand what your boundaries are for that getting help of a therapist, because I'm not that and they're draining my energy.
Speaker 1:I think the first thing I would ask is to understand what your boundaries are for that kind of behavior and putting up your boundary when you don't feel you can handle that when you are able to be a mentor. One of the misconceptions I hear quite a bit, especially with communities of color, is that it does take a certain degree of courage and vulnerability in order to be in that therapeutic space, and as a therapist of color, I am always incredibly amazed and humbled at the people that show up every day during their appointment, ready to be vulnerable and open. It does take effort to go through that experience. It does take a degree of courage to look at those things that hurt and say that hurt.
Speaker 1:A lot of people want to discount the fact that, yeah, I went through stuff and it's fine, it made me stronger, right, and this attitude that it didn't affect me like that. But inside you're really going ouch, that hurt, and some people right, that is harder to say than others. So, and that's why I always see the people who show up every day during their appointments and go. Half the battle was just you making it to your appointment, you either logging in or showing up at my door. I'm glad you're here, because they didn't have to. Yet they chose to prioritize being vulnerable in a space where they feel comfortable, and they trust me with that. I am always humbled by the fact that you showed up today. Great to see you.
Speaker 2:So with that, what could you say for people that? One thing that has been promoted to me since I was a child, first receiving therapeutic services and also in church. It's okay to shop around because not every therapist is free, but somebody can do that and they stick with what is not working. What can you?
Speaker 1:do to help? Yes, absolutely, unfortunately and fortunately. A little like dating, you have to find the one that fits, clicks and that there is ease with, and that could take some time. That also takes a little bit of. I'm gonna say it again it takes a little courage to fire someone who doesn't click with you. Some people are scared to say this doesn't work because they assume that because this person has this, this license, this should work period. I've been fired before.
Speaker 1:I'm not everybody's therapist and that's okay when something doesn't click for a person and I always respect the fact that they have the courage to say, yeah, I expected something different help you find the person that you really had in mind. I'm not going to take that personally as a professional the fact that they had the presence in mind to say something okay, this is really important to you. So let's find your next person, and so I've worked with people to do that more panned off or, okay, you want this style, you want a little bit more processing rather than action-based or homework-based got it. Let me see who I can come up with and give you a few options so that way you can write to a consultation, sit down, ask them questions and see if that's a better fit for you. Very much roll with what people need.
Speaker 1:I also will say sometimes people use the excuse of it's not clicking because they don't want to go there. There is not anything I can do to move them along their healing journey if they don't want to. I'm always very mindful that if a person's not ready to go there, if they're not ready to touch some of them, there isn't anything I can do, and so I can't proceed in good conscience, especially because of the ethics behind that to push someone when they're not ready to. I've also been fired because the person's just not ready to go there. I'm not going to take that personally. I'm just going to say OK, you know I'm here and if you ever want to come back, give me a call or shoot me a text. But it is what it is.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. A person may not feel comfortable doing that. Once they got in they feel committed. So how could we use that for people to let them know it's all right to tell that person even afterwards you don't want to sign up for the next appointment, don't go. What can you do to encourage people to do that? Because I know that also stops people, because some people get turned off real quick by one therapist and then they're done.
Speaker 1:What I will say is this whether they are aware of it or not, things like that happen for a reason. Some people may be aware that it's uncomfortable and some may not. Right, and so I'm of the mindset that if they want to talk about what's what is causing that discomfort or that hesitancy, that is great. Let's have a conversation about it, and if not, that's okay too. I am the kind of therapist where I believe in compassionate accountability. I do believe that sometimes it's okay to say the thing out loud, and if I have to be the one to say it, hey, I'm recognizing some resistance. Or every time we try to talk about this one particular topic, we get defensive or there's something that happens. I always treat that with the utmost care because we're going into a territory that they're finding really scary. That's why I want to be careful and also mindful that I may bring it up and, depending on how you react, we can go let's not touch that today. Or why don't you want to touch that? Why don't you want to go there and look at that particular memory or that experience and really look at what that means to you?
Speaker 1:I am the kind of therapist that I'll ask if it's appropriate and if it's at that point where I'm recognizing continued resistance. Yet If there's a person that says I don't need therapy, I just want to talk to you, isaiah. If they just want to call you and say help me, are you a licensed therapist, isaiah? No, how do you encourage that person? Listen, I love that you trust me. Yet some of these things are beyond my scope. Maybe someone with more experience? How do you then encourage them to think about why don't you go to a therapist that they can help you with? Also, encourage them to see that it's not such a scary thing. Oftentimes, the thoughts or perceptions we have in our head are way more scarier than reality. So how do we encourage them to see that it's not as scary as you think it could be?
Speaker 2:Well, that is a weakness of mine, that when I have people call me and I can see that it is scary for them, even when I bring it up in conversation, sometimes you don't have to ask, you can tell. And if you really just want to up in conversation, sometimes you don't have to ask, you can tell. And if you really just want to hear them say it, you can hear them say it. But it's a weakness of mine because I will sit there and direct them that way and hey, man, check it out. If you want a woman, you can look up and you can specifically say hey, you're looking for a woman. Or if you want a man, if you want someone who is friendly, there's so many things you can tailor for your needs. I don't know how to do it, or I don't want to do that, because what if I don't find this? What if I don't find that? Then they'll be like let's just talk about it, that we can do it this way.
Speaker 2:A weakness for me is I push it, but at the same time I listen. That's satisfying enough to the point that they won't do the work and go look for themselves, and so that's where I have to put up boundaries and I know my weakness as far as that. I have to put up boundaries. No different from someone else did for me for them to be able to go a different direction, whether they're leading me and going to someone else or actually going to therapy. I just need to push them away from me in that way. I still try to give a listening ear as a friend, but what's beyond friend measures? I do let them know, hey, like you really do need to talk to someone. You got to go and I'm like somebody can help you with that. They can be able to tell you how to get past it. You know, talk about whatever you need to do. But that is a weakness of mine. I still try to push them in the direction of therapy but I also end up giving them advice.
Speaker 1:Have you let them know you have a therapist and have done that work? Do they think it's scary? But it's really not? Do they know that?
Speaker 2:Okay, I have shared that. But with that too, magnetic connections is real. It's very real. When I say that I typically connect with a version of me, whether it is a present version or a past or it's a future version.
Speaker 2:So when I do, and I speak with them and I let them know hey, you know this, everything I see myself within these people, because what they do is, as though I can see it, they're manipulating the work. So basically, I'm getting the work done, and when I get the work done, they can eat off of my plate because of what I've learned and the tools that I've used to be able to conquer this demon, that demon, whatever it may be. Now they can use the same source, because all they need to do is pull on me and I kind tell them hey, man, all you got to do is go boom, boom, boom, boom, and then they're like all right, cool. So why should they have to do the work when I'm doing the work for them and I'm passing along to them? So it's all within myself that I need to work.
Speaker 1:You mentioned enabling earlier. I'll just throw that out there.
Speaker 2:I am very aware of that. The I am very aware of that. The thing is with myself. It's like I'm draining my own cup for something that can't refill me. I am consciously aware of that. The best thing I could do for me in this season, and what I'm doing now, is fooling in order to produce. So I'm cutting away those same people, people, and I'm doing it. So it's another way of leading by example and showing you what I'm doing. I don't have to tell you anything because I've went through time of telling you. Now I'm showing you.
Speaker 1:So that's where I'm at you know, with enabling, when we're trying to put up boundaries, it can feel like all or nothing. I either help you or I don't help you. I either roll out the carpet or I yank the carpet out from under your feet. I just want you to remember to have some grace with yourself as you're establishing your boundaries and enforcing them, and also that boundaries are not a punishment to the other person. What they are is another form of respect for yourself.
Speaker 2:I agree with that.
Speaker 1:How can listeners find your podcast and your book?
Speaker 2:I am currently working on both projects. The title of my podcast and my brand is Before it's Too Late. You'll be able to find me on YouTube, facebook and Instagram. I'm working on a tickety-tock and so that's where you'll be able to find me, and the title of the upcoming book is my Therapist Made Me Write it For my podcast. I try to get other people to tell their stories as well, just to be able to help other people to be able to get past that hump that they're on.
Speaker 2:That's beautiful, we will link to all of your work when the episode is live.
Speaker 1:So people know where to find you. Yes, it was a pleasure speaking to you, isaiah. I appreciate you taking the time to share your story and purpose with us today.
Speaker 2:Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1:Take care.
Speaker 2:I love you.
Speaker 1:We hope you enjoyed this conversation on Bridging the Gaps Reimagining Opioid Recovery Podcast. Don't forget to subscribe to hear more stories about hope in recovery and see the links in our bio for more information on the fellowship and resources in our community.
